The N pronunciation

Why doesn't Dave (one of the instructors) not pronounce his n's…. the chinese lady pronounces her n's… is it another way to say it. Thanks.

Dave does pronounce his 'n's is most of the tracks. For some reason he does not in the first lesson: Wǒ yě hěnhǎo。 Zàijiàn。

I asked about this elsewhere but have not yet received a response. In the first lesson Dave pronounces the hen in Wǒ yě hěnhǎo。as if it where "Herhǎo" and he consistently replaces the "n" with an "r" in the first lesson.

Later in lesson either lesson 1.1 or 1.2 he does not pronounce the n at all and it sounds like an erasure has been made in the tape.

At first I thought maybe this was intentional and perhaps was a gender thing, since Lin never corrects him.  However, now I believe they were not together when the tape was made. My impression is she recorded her parts previously someplace else and then he is interjecting later. Some of the delays are so long I mistakenly thought the tape was over.

Do any of the more advanced students know if the "Her" pronunciation of "hen" is just an error?

Zàijiàn。
 

I was thinking it might be a Southern Chinese thing, but now I believe it is an error.

David,

I don't know if RL uses tape or not, but many of their conversations appear to be spliced or the pronunciations edited.  As a result, some terminating sounds are truncated or corrupted.  Overall, I'd say RC sound quality is very good to excellent.  

Thanks for coming by.  I agree that overall the sound quality and even the total system are excellent.

But, how is "Henhǎo"  properly pronounced?  Is it always pronounced the way LIn PIn does  as if the first syllable sounds like the english chicken "hen?"  Or is David intentionally changing it to sound like "her" because Lin Pin is female.  (I know "her" does not mean female in Mandarin, but I'm only providing a hypothetical plausible reason we should copy Dave and say "herhow."  Perhaps, it is a regional dialect.  

Or is it as you suggest, some error, perhaps in splicing the tapes (or digital equivalent.

谢谢你！
Xièxie nǐ!

再见！
Zàijiàn!

Well, hen is pronounced like the barnyard animal and hao is pronounce like the English work "how". Then there are the tones. If you say "hen hao",  the first syllable uses the rising (second) tone, and the second syllable uses the low (third) tone. Now you probably know both syllables are third tones and since we can't have consecutive third tones, one of them must rise to become a second tone. Thus, hen3 hao3 --> hen2 hao3. Now, if I say "wo3 hen3 hao3", we have three consecutive third tones so the middle one rises to a second tone, e.g. "wo3 hen2 hao3". Finally, there is "wo3 ye3 hen3 hao3" which becomes "wo3 ye2 hen3 hao2". As I say, we are not allowed to have consecutive third tones. The Pinyin will still show third tones for all but we are all supposed to know the rules.

Thanks Robert, This is exactly what I wanted to know.

Since the first post I've done the lesson of the third tone changing to the second tone when paired.

I'm just now printing out the my Vocab words and pasting them on 3x5 index cards so I can practice when away from the computer.  I like to keep track of how many words I know in the first phase of learning a language.  If I see it is only 20 and could double it a finite period of time it motivates me to do it faster.  Silly I know what I'll whatever works.

Thanks for conversing Robert. 

There is a technical term for the change in tones that I don't remember but someone will remind us what it is. This is what makes learning Chinese so much fun. Then there is the grammar. Have fun.

谢谢你！
Xièxie nǐ!

Hi, Robert.  I have "hit the wall" today in my studies.  I committed to myself to study at least 3,000 points in both Chinese and German, however, today my brain in slow so I am looking for excuses to to the Forum, which I still count the time for my learning goals.  I'm up to a streak of 47 days in German where I have just passed to the Platinum Star level, but have now hit "burn-out."  A special risk for learners like myself who like to learn in bursts.  Like the story of the rabbit and the hare. lol 

So, as part of my "distraction strategy" I've researched you question about the word for the grammar rules governing tone changes in adjacent Chinese tones which turns out to be "Sandhi.)

From www.yellowbook.com (The examples did not copy so the serious student should pursue the link. Yellowbook looks like a  useful resource and they promote that their flashcards somehow incorporate these tone changing rules unlike many competitors.)

Mandarin Tone Changes (Tone Sandhi)
Many students are never formally taught that in certain cases tones can shift based on the tones of the adjacent words. In linguistics, this is known as tone sandhi. By convention, most dictionaries only show the unmodified tone. Textbooks, on the other hand, may or may not incorporate the tone sandhi into the pinyin. This discrepancy is rarely pointed out, which can create endless confusion to beginning learners of Chinese. Fortunately, although the rules for Mandarin tone sandhi may appear intimidating at first, they are in fact very few and after a short while, their use will come naturally.
Here are the rules:
A third tone followed by another becomes a second. More broadly, if there is a series of third tones, convert every other third tone to a second tone, except the last one¹. Example:
is nominally but effectively pronounced as

.
If the word 不 (bù, not) is followed by another fourth tone, it changes to a second tone. Example:
is nominally but effectively pronounced as
.
Rules regarding 一 (yī, one).
Used as an ordinal number, it stays in the first tone. Example:
(第一個, the first one) is pronounced Used as a cardinal number, it changes to a second tone if followed by a fourth tone but changes to a fourth tone otherwise. Example: (一個, one piece) is nominally but effectively pronounced as
(one day) is nominally but effectively pronounced as
(one layer) is nominally but effectively pronounced as
(one kind) is nominally but effectively pronounced as The is the first dictionary to show both the nominal and modified tones. The audio pronunciation produced by clicking on the icon in the dictionary and
always take into account the tone sandhi.
¹Some would say that a non-ending third tone is actually pronounced as a half third tone, i.e., it falls but does not rise.

 

It appears these comment boxes do not process HTML 5 code which should properly put this direct quote from a reference in a blockquote to indicate proper academic attribution. I encourage the Rocket Team to add this capability to the Wish List of Improvements. (Although having a Pin Yin keyboard for adding tones is much higher.  I am now using Robert's suggestion of using Google Translate to produce the Pin Yin words I use here.)

再见！
Zàijiàn!

Ń, pínglùn kuāng méiyǒu, qíshí, zhèngquè chǔlǐ de HTML5 kuài yǐnyòng de shuōmíng. Suǒyǐ, wǒ shōuhuí wǒ de jiànyì wèi tā zēngtiānle yuànwàng qīngdān, yīnwèi wǒmen xiànzài kěyǐ kàn dào, tā bùjǐn huì chǔlǐ yìjiàn tíjiāo hòu, zhè shì wánquán kěyǐ jiēshòu de. Cǐwài, zài huíxiǎng qǐlái, wǒ hěn bàoqiàn, rúguǒ wǒ dehuà tīng qǐlái “snitty”. Duìbùqǐ, wǒ lèile, jīntiān xīnqíng bù hǎo.

Ah, the comment box did, in fact, correctly process my HTML5 blockquote instructions.  So I retract my suggestion for adding it to the Wish List as we can now see that it only does this processing after the comment has been submitted, which is perfectly acceptable.

Also in retrospect,  I apologize if my remark seemed "snitty."  I am sorry, I am tired and in a bad mood today.

I may add that Language and Culture lesson 1.7 discusses changing tones too.

I should add that for every "interactive audio lesson", e.g. 1.1 there is usually a corresponding "language and culture lessson", e.g. 1.5.

You probably think you should do the lessons in order, but I have suggested numerous time to do them in pairs, e.g. 1.1 then 1.5, 1.2 then 1.6, 1.3 then 1.7, and so on.

Thanks, I've now listened to and read all the lessons in Module 1 so discovered this parallel of the writing lesson starting at 1.5.  I really like getting into writing the real Chinese characters.  I need to go back and finish the exercises on the Write 2 sections which concentrates on entering the Chinese characters not the Pin Yin.

Now that I've figured out how it works, I really  like this second keyboard for entering the Chinese characters.

Thanks for your kind help.  It is very helpful to have an expert to talk to about these things.  Zàijiàn,
Dà wèi
aka: David

大家好！

刚才看了以上你们讲的那个发音的问题，我想在此说几句。I just saw the problem of pronunciation you were discussing above and would like to chip in. 

The pronunciation of 很好 should include the 'n'. However, it should be said that the pronunciation of the 'n' in Chinese is not always the same as that of English, especially when we add speed to the sentence. In the sentence “我很好”, the Chinese 'n' is pronounced slightly further back in the mouth and is softer than in English. This is why in the lessons it may be difficult to pick up. I spoke slow and clearly in the lessons for your benefit but in China, it is unlikely that you would hear such clear pronunictaion (of coursem that depends on the region you go to).

我希望这会有帮助！需要多给你们解释，就跟我说一声。I hope this is of some help and if you need more explanation just let me know! 加油！

林萍

Nín hǎo Lín Pǐng
Hello Lin Ping.

我很高兴你来这儿在我们的问题发表评论。
我的名字是大卫也。
非常感谢你
希望再次听到你的声音。

wǒ hěn gāoxìng nǐ lái zhè'er zài wǒmen de wèntí fābiǎo pínglùn.
Wǒ de míngzì shì dà wèi yě.
Fēicháng gǎnxiè nǐ
xīwàng zàicì tīng dào nǐ de shēngyīn.

I am so glad you have come by to comment on our question.
My name is also David.  
thank you very much
Hope to hear from you again.

Good bye.

谢谢你！
Xièxie nǐ!

再见，
大卫
Zàijiàn,
Dà wèi
aka: David


P.S.  我使用谷歌翻译帮我翻译。因此，让我说的任何错误对不起提前。

Wǒ shǐyòng gǔgē fānyì bāng wǒ fānyì. Yīncǐ, ràng wǒ shuō de rènhé cuòwù duìbùqǐ tíqián.

I am using Google translate to help me in this translation.  So let me say sorry for any errors in advance.