Forum Rocket French French Grammar Question from Lesson 17.0 - Preparing a Party

Question from Lesson 17.0 - Preparing a Party

ToddSmith

ToddSmith

In the dialog of lesson 17.0, “Preparing a Party," Eric says: 

Je pensais que l’on pourrais faire la fête dans le jardin et inviter tous ses amis et la famille. 

Everything makes sense to me except for one thing: why did he say “que l'on pourrais"? I would have said “que on pourrais." What does “le” or “la” refer to here? Is it Isabelle, his sweetheart for whom he is preparing the party? And if so, as an indirect object, why would he not use “lui”? Or does can “lui” be contracted to “l'”? 

I am just starting with Rocket French with Level 3, so maybe this was covered in an earlier lesson that I missed and you could point me to. 

Thanks,
Todd

RobertC106

RobertC106

Bonjour Todd.

 

Que l'on is identical in meaning to qu'on, which is a contraction for que on (que on would never be grammatically correct). In other words, the “l”  is meaningless. You would've seen both forms used many times earlier in the lessons, although it's possible that the purpose of the “l” was never discussed. I've read that que l'on is more formal and I've also read that it's preferable to the sound of qu'on. I have no idea how Rocket decides to use one vs. the other since they seem to use them interchangeably. But, fwiw, I very often substitute que l'on because the voice recognition struggles with parsing qu'on (among other things). 

 

Robert

 

ToddSmith

ToddSmith

Awesome! Thanks so much for your reply Robert. That helps me a lot! 

Todd

RobertC106

RobertC106

Glad I could help, Todd. I'm sure I tried to rationalize que l'on the same way you did when I first
saw it, but I think it's worth mentioning that, under no circumstances, would an object pronoun occur in
front of the subject. I'm always telling myself, yeah, that may be what it sounds like, but it doesn't
make sense.

 

Robert

 

ToddSmith

ToddSmith

Good reminder, Robert. Thanks again!

RobertC106

RobertC106

By the way, Todd. I wonder if you're aware of the other letter, t, that's also used “just for sound” in French.

 

il y a (there is/are) becomes y a-t-il   (is/are there) when the subject and verb are inverted. Here the t is meaningless but improves the flow. Likewise,

 

De quoi avez-vous besoin?  (What do you need?) becomes de quoi a-t-il besoin? (what does he need?) since the subject (il)  begins with a vowel.

 

Robert

 

ToddSmith

ToddSmith

That is very helpful, Robert. I have seen y-a-t-il and wondered what was going on. Thank you!

RobertC106

RobertC106

Here's another twist that I find interesting which does not involve a "meaningless letter", but could give the impression that it does when hearing it, since it involves the pronunciation of an otherwise 'silent t'. Par exemple, que proposent-ils? (what do they offer?), is pronounced as though it might be spelled, que propos(ent)-t-ils, although it isn't. Or, might've been que propose-t-il ? (what does he offer?) in the first place. The t is simply borrowed from the otherwise silent ending. So, those 3rd person plural endings are not always completely 'silent'! Ah, ces francais!
 

Robert

 

Mitchell-Rocket-Languages-Tutor

Mitchell-Rocket-Languages-Tutor

Bonjour!

 

Thanks Robert, you are on the money! Having said that, I thought I'd add my two cents worth just for added  context.

 

The l' is added for euphony, a concept in French that is designed to maintain agreeable or harmonious sound and flow. This particular addition is used largely in formal contexts and written French or when more elegance is desired. Robert mentioned a couple of other examples, including the t in y a-t-il and this is exactly the same concept.

 

These kind of grammatical changes for euphony are important to recognise as they are prolific in written form, as well as on TV, radio, in speeches and other more formal contexts. However, when it comes to speaking I would steer clear of them. Unless you are having a highly literary (and dare I say it, snobbish) discussion, it would seem very out of place.

 

I hope this add to the convo!

 

   -   Mitchell

 

RobertC106

RobertC106

Bonjour Mitchell.

 

I'm assuming that your comment about the excessive formality is in reference to the use of the l, particularly in que l'on. Correct? After all, the use of t that I'm aware of, in subject/verb inversion, including y a-t-il appears to be etched in stone. Are there other letters, or instances of l or t that one might see used for this, or some similar purpose? Merci.

 

Robert

 

Mitchell-Rocket-Languages-Tutor

Mitchell-Rocket-Languages-Tutor

Salut Robert,

 

Sorry, I didn't make that clear. Yes, when I was talking about excessive formality, I was referring to que l'on. There are many different euphonic changes and most of them are mandatory, such as the euphonic inversion which you mentioned, as well as liaisons and elisions etc. 

 

To return to que l'on, this is actually optional. For example, you easily say on or ther other of the following:

  1. ce qu'on pense
  2. ce que l'on pense

They mean exactly the same thing, it's just that #2 uses the optional euphonic l'. You may also see the l' before an indefinite article:

  1. un de vos amis
  2. l'un de vos amis

Again, these two examples mean exactly the same thing, it's just that #2 sounds more formal and elegant.

 

I hope that makes things clearer.

 

   -   Mitchell

RobertC106

RobertC106

D'accord! Merci.

 

Robert

 

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