Forum Japanese students: Making the katana sword

Japanese students: Making the katana sword

Al22

Al22

How the Most Expensive Swords in the World Are Made

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt6WQYtefXA

https://vid.puffyan.us/watch?v=Tt6WQYtefXA

 

From smelting the iron to the finished product, the katana samurai sword.

***

Katana

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katana

 

Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

 

The book of five rings

Miyamoto Musashi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Five_Rings

 

This Island of Japon

Joao Rodrigues

https://search.brave.com/search?q=This+island+of+japon+joao+rodrigues&source=android

 

Portugues missionary to Japan,

contemporary of Musashi.

Much of the reading is popcorn dry, but very informative.

 

I had and read both the five rings and this island some decades ago

 

This sort of thing fascinates me.

 

ChrisM108

ChrisM108

It's similar to the quality of Anglo Saxon swords in terms of the best of them, in terms of quality of construction and strength.  The so-called ‘Dark Ages’…

Al22

Al22

I think that can be debated as for quality and durability, but what strikes me is that a saxon's seax (short sword / long knife) was the symbol of his freedom. Hence the descriptive word “saxon,” one who wears a seax and will use it to defend his freedom.

 

Angles, saxons and jutes were tribes from northwestern germany and denmark who invaded romano-celtic britannia in the 7th century. Hence the terms “anglosaxon" and “english.”

 

The Japanese obligation was unquestioning loyalty and obedience to one's master, one has his place in society.

 

I'm not sure I can correctly put into words to acurately convey my understanding, but here goes:

 

Killing is killing and warfare from ancient to early modern times was essentially a large, organized knife fight until the introduction of capable firearms. 

 

However…

 

The saxons engaged in raiding, invading, and either displacing or absorbing the native populations they conquered. Wholesale slaughter was often a byproduct, maybe sometimes a feature.

 

In japan the penalty for defeat / failing one's master was death at one's own hand.

 

And there was collective conformance to the whole, “the nail that sticks up will be hammered down.”

 

The endemic warfare between clans on the closed island chain of Japan led to the samurai perfection of killing with a sword in single combat. For that a first quality weapon was necessary, and until recently homeland japanese have traditionally engaged themselves in the perfection of whatever they do, including swordsmiths.

 

Zen buddhism has been a key element of concentrating without concentrating, the uncluttered mind.

 

I think it's similar to a painter painting or a blues muscian bending the strings on his guitar, there is only doing. The painter paints what he sees, the musician produces sound from emptyness, no thought, maybe what we might describe as “in the zone.”

 

A boxer doesn't think “I'm going to block or evade the left jab coming at my face,” he just does.

 

I think to say one understands what is not understandable by conscience thought indicates one doesn't understand at all. And to write what I just consciously thought was a conscious act.

 

But to have a still mind is not to be unconscious.

 

We tend to have ceaseless chatter occupying our minds, which often distracts from or interferes with doing.

 

Shotokan karate kata has been described as moving zen as compared to zazen, seated zen. The tea ceremony is also moving zen.

 

The uncluttered mind helps dispell the terror of combat as well as enhance efficiency of doing.

 

Without efficient doing the weapon is useless.

 

To compare the incomparable, a samurai from around 1600 would have swiftly dispatched a saxon from circa 650 ad in single combat, no matter the edged weapon.

 

Maxie

Maxie

Have watched some of the YouTube videos and a documentary. Was really interesting. 

Am learning Japanes, but not through Rocket, just found the lessons overwhelming. Am some stage we are planning a trip to Japan. I want to go and see the gardens and my husband wants to do the old postal hike. Looks absolutely lovely. I miss the Japanese food we could get in Singapore. Here on the island we get Japanese food, but more limited.

 

Take care all

Maxie

ChrisM108

ChrisM108

Interesting, AI22.  When I was learning Japanese decades ago, I had a company-paid tutor and made good progress.  As part of my interest in the culture, I did Shotokan Karate and graded to 1st dan black belt.  That style of karate is not good for the long term (joints, etc,) and in hindsight is too full-on for modern law's concept of ‘reasonable force’…  As you say, it is instinctive flighting.  I studied Soto Zen and the concept of ‘no mind’ was a great help when sparring, to avoid thinking while sparring.  It was an interesting package.  I really do believe though, that both karate and Zen are best practiced by the Japanese, as they are culturally attuned in a way westerners are not.  IMHO.  

The most sensible martial arts for western law considerations are Aikido, judo, and martial Tai Chi, I reckon.

Hi Maxie - I bet you'd jave a great time in Japan!

 

Al22

Al22

Chris,

 

I have a smattering of shotokan, shorinryu, taekwondo and aikido but due to some issues in my life, including the inherent itinerant nature of my work, I didn't get past green belt in any of them (beginning Heian Yodan), and by the time I got around to aikido late in life (retirement) an old work injury flared up in the dojo and squelched that, it still bedevils me. In fact, in general I often feel like how an old arthritic dog looks.

 

But, I did hang back and often didn't test when the instructors wanted me to because I personally didn't feel like I was ready, so I may have had practice time beyond rank.

 

But shotokan was the first, longest and had great effect in my life in part by what it inspired me to seek.

 

When unforseen hazard of any kind has suddenly sprung on me like a trap, there is calm, from sudden traffic situations, to potentially lethal ocurrances at work (my occupation was a hazardous one) and other things, I navigate it and have peace afterward while others who may be around me are panicked.

 

Decades later I still have quick reactions which I can't do if I think of doing them. Sports while in high school has contributed to that.

 

I watch professional dancers in videos and sometimes see movements similar to those one might see in oriental martial arts, such as resembling crescent kicks  or, in the case of Paula Abdul's “straight up” video, a spinning kick done with light flexibility, grace and ease.

 

After aikido ended for me, there was an extremely rare for my area zen instruction which met up on Sundays at the aikido dojo, but I no more than started when covid killed that too.

 

I have occasionally visited a vietnamese buddhist temple within traveling distance during their ceremonies and eat with them afterwards. I bring a decent size bag of rice and respectfully give it to the nun at the door after I have kicked off my shoes.

 

When I enter the ceremony room (I don't know the proper name) I treat it as though moving on and off  the mat and also express respect to what is equivelant to the Shomen.

 

I don't know if that might be ridiculous outside of a japanese influenced environment, as I never saw any vietnamese do so, but I felt obligated.

 

Their rythmic, chant like singing during the service has a feel to it which was like the feel I got watching a video of tibetan monks chanting while seated, something which feels amenable to no mind.

 

(Like with the koreans and japanese, vietnamese and japanese weren't exactly fond of one another. Even with a common cultural umbrella, the cultures and peoples are not the same like westerners tend to assume, and there is ugly history between them.)

 

Those people have a warm, giving feel to them. Invariably one or more will ask me if I was in vietnam during the war whenever I visit.

 

When they have work projects around the temple, it's more like a relaxed social event rather than a “let's get it done,” which would itch at me because work has (almost) always been more of get it done now then screw off. 

 

At the beginning of aikido class we would kneel in front of the Shomen, clap twice, deep bow, and clap twice again.

 

Subsequently I saw film of an elderly japanese WWII veteran do the same while standing toward a monument dedicated to deceased japanese veterans of that war.

 

Outside of being part of an expression of deep respect I haven't a clue what the clapping is about, it wasn't explained.

 

Cultural attunement… During the mid 70's I knew a woman from hawaii with near japanese ancestry who was also old enough to possibly experience the internment camp during WWII as a child.

 

She told me this about the (more culturally) japanese of her youth, that it was unnerving to be around people who you never knew what they were thinking. I have a theory as to why that might be, and there is much more about the temple, but I've rambled on enough for the time being.

 

Addendum: Funakoshi led a long, active and productive life.

 

ChrisM108

ChrisM108

It is fascinating how languages and culture affect mindset. I agree how Shotokan affects my mindset decades after finishing, ranging from spatial awareness to dealing with urban environments.

I'm pretty sure the clapping you refer to is part of Shinto, but I have also seen it done in Buddhist areas.

Al22

Al22

Quote about clapping with bowing in aikido and shinto 

 

Hakushu

 

“There is a significant and demonstrable influence of Shinto in the philosophy and practice of aikido. One of the most obvious is the practice of bowing and clapping that precedes and closes training sessions in many dojos. As with most rituals, this practice has several layers of potential meaning which may be of interest, to the degree that one is conscious of them…”

 

“…Aiki is practiced as a Do/Tao/Way in many dojos. As with Zen and other systemic practices, one consequence of seeing an applied philosophy as having implications throughout life is the extension of its metaphors to see how they apply to many other areas beyond the literal practice of, for instance, techniques for martial utility…”

 

https://culturesmith.com/Hakushu

 

It seems that clapping and bowing is done in shinto shrines for several reasons.

 

I haven't looked into it enough yet to make an informed comment about the clapping, but part of it seems to be getting the attention of the deity / deities and another seems to be, in western terms and understanding, to obtain the blessing and assistence of the same…

 

In the Shomen of the aikido dojo was a rack holding a katana and wakizashi, some framed calligraphy and maybe a picture of the founder.

 

There were also bokken and jos in the dojo, several times I saw the sensei and advanced students practicing with bokken.

 

There was usually kendo going on in the next room. It tended to be quite noisy.

Al22

Al22

World Kendo Championships 2018

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a8v79oql2B0&t=2306

 

 Gichin Funakoshi - shotokan karate

Vintage footage

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jH9TDqeAPFA&t=893

After introduction, vintage black and white film, narration. Cheesy, modern background music dubbed onto production. Good material.

 

Paula Abdul - Straight Up

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=El1kgCqD7Xk&t=85

 

It's been years since I've seen this video. One of the dancers makes some moves resembling Korean style spinning kicks. I'm not sure how to communicate what my point is, but the universality of bodily movement might be close.

 

I admire talent, wherever it may be.

 

 

 

 

 

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