bases

Now I just got back, so maybe it was already done.. But I was learning in my game about "bases" for Japanese...Base1-5, te, and ta. What makes the iku and kuru verbs irregular are because their bases are different...I noticed that Rocket Japanese doesn't follow the approach on bases..And for me, conjugating verbs becomes difficult without it. I think that if Rocket Japanese followed it, it would help many members, including I, with understanding how verbs are correctly conjugated. Thoughts?

K73SK-san, Thank you for your feedback regarding the use of Japanese verbs 'bases' when explaining Japanese grammar. It is certainly a method of learning Japanese that is introduced in grammar-based books, as well as other textbooks. We, at Rocket Japanese, have not taken this approach due to the confusion it may cause for some learners who are not familiar with these terms. Also, we desired to avoid getting too grammatical and technical - the use of Base 1, Base 2, Base 3 - are somewhat abstract terms. However, we understanding that everybody learns differently :P , so if you have any questions regarding the bases, I am more than happy to help you! Mata ne. Sayaka :lol:

I can see where you come from when you say that the readers may become "confused" about them. I was as well, but instead of just reading it - I wrote it down in my notes to fully understand how it works. First I wrote a chart on how the bases work and then I wrote out on the bottom of that some examples of base changes and which verbs get those changes --- I also wrote the irregulars. Then after the verbs, I did the end changes with the adjectives. Out of curiousity: Would you like me to type out how I wrote it in my book to see if it would be helpful for other people as well? It could be an optional learning task for some learners, as in an optional lesson.

Konnichiwa! You are welcome to post any suggestions and approaches you have taken to learn the Japanese language. If it has been useful for you, it may be useful for someone else as well. :P Sayaka

Ok, here goes. Let me know what you think... [quo]*Quote:* Hi everyone, this will sound very complicated at first, but just go through it a few times to understand it all! This is some information regarding the stem changes on verbs. Like how English has endings -ing and -ed, Japanese has quite a few different endings for different reasons. First, I am going to remind you that there are two types of verbs. The first type(easier to remember) is called "Ichidan Verbs." These are verbs that end in "eru" and "iru". The second type is called "Godan Verbs." These are any kind of verbs that do not end "eru" and "iru" There are a few verbs that end in "eru" and "iru" that are actually Godan Verbs, but we wont worry about that in this teaching. In every verb, there is a thing called a base. That's basically the stem at the end of the very that can be changed. Below is a list of these bases (do not worry of their meaning or how they're used for now, that's explained below). Ichidan Verbs: *Base 1* - Drop the RU *Base 2* - Drop the RU *base 3* - Keep the RU *base 4* - Change RU to RE *base 5* - Change RU to YOU *base te* - Change RU to TE *base ta* - Change RU to TA Godan Verbs: *base 1* - Change U to A *base 2* - Change U to I *base 3 *- Keep the U *base 4* - Change U to E *base 5* - Change U to OU *base te* - Change the last letter of the verb according to the chart below. For example, if the verb is "manabu" (to learn) you would change "bu" to "nda" if it's in the te form. *base ta* - Same as te, except you change the e to an a *U, TSU, RU == TTE BU, MU, NU == NDE KU == ITE GU == IDE SU == SHITE* The verb "iku" in the ta form actually changes the entire word to "itta" even though the chart shows one t. So now you're wondering "Ok, so what is the point of the bases and how do I use them for whatever? That's where this following information comes in. This is what you need to memorize. Bases are depicted on how words are used in sentences regarding time and formality. Read the first chart below and explanation follows telling how to use it. *__Formally speaking__* *Present/Future tense* == base 2 + masu *Present/Future negative tense* == base 2 + masen *Past tense* == base 2 +mashita *Past negative* == base 2 + masen deshita Now that you seen this chart, pick a verb. Any verb, it does not matter whatsoever. In this example, we'll use taberu, to eat. *first* ask if the verb you picked is Godan or Ichidan. Taberu is an ichidan verb since it ends in "eru" *second* find a form you want to use it in (present/future tense, etc.). *third* find out how it's created. For example, say I choose "Present/Future tense" for my verb. I would look at the list above and see "base 2 + masu". *fourth* make your verb. So now I have decided I want to say "I will eat sushi" which is future tense. The list above says "base 2 + masu" so I am going to change "taberu" to whatever base 2 tells me to do. In the Ichidan verb list, it says "drop RU". So now my verb is tabe. The information above also says "+masu" so that means my verb is now tabemasu. So a complete sentence would be "o sushi o tabemasu" for "I eat sushi". Cool huh? The best way to remember formal phrases is the fact they all follow base 2. So if it's Ichidan, you drop RU. If it's godan, you change U to I (verb manabu would change to manabi). "What about informal?" you ask? well here is the list below. This one is a little more complicated to learn: *__Informally speaking__* *Present/Future tense* == base 3 *Present/Future negative tense* == base 1 + nai *Past tense* == base ta *Past negative* == base 1 + nakatta So say you wanted to say "I will shut up" which is future tense. And you wanted to say it informally (the verb is damaru). First is it Ichidan or Godan (godan)? Change it according to the rules. base 3 for future tense, so "watashi wa damaru" is informally saying "I will shut up." [/quo] What do you think????????

[quo]*Quote:* base te - Change the last letter of the verb according to the chart below. For example, if the verb is "manabu" (to learn) you would change "bu" to "nda" if it's in the te form. [/quo] I meant to say "nde" not "nda" ... That'll confuse some people until they see this message, anyway I can edit it? There's no edit button :cry:

I bought a video game that was teaching through bases and quite honestly I'm glad Rocket Languages choose not to teach through such a method as well it just seems kinda taking verb conjugations a little too far grammatically speaking... In other words I agree its too grammatical I would much rather know them by the situations you use them in through experience (as a native child would learn) rather than through "bases".

It helps others differently than, as we've said above. I find it easier, and it helps me put the correct endings for me instead of an incorrect ending. I can naturally, without a pause, put words into past tense without having to think of the whole base thing. Others, it may just cause pauses all the time.

みなさん、おはよおございます！ K73SK, I found the information you provided, to be really really good! Scary enough, I found it to be very useful and easy to understand! In saying this, I had sampled through some other examples of verbs and following the rules of bases, how simple it was to insert the correct ending, making it clear of what I wanted to convey! Cheers for that. To be honest, I didn't know that a formula like that even existed. Now, I can concentrate on building up on my vocab (amongst other things...lol) よくできました　ありがとうございます！ がんばっています！

どういたしまして I hope it comes in hand. If you ever do have a point to where you're like some of the people that have to "stop and think" of the base, my recommendation is to follow what Derek and Sayaka said - Try and learn from RJ and go with the natural flow of how the ending is. That way you do not become a stutterer in Japan :P

[quo]*Quote from * K73SK どういたしまして I hope it comes in hand. If you ever do have a point to where you're like some of the people that have to "stop and think" of the base, my recommendation is to follow what Derek and Sayaka said - Try and learn from RJ and go with the natural flow of how the ending is. That way you do not become a stutterer in Japan :P[/quo] Yeah building off of this, most of the time the only time I pause to think about wording something is usually just to try and remember which verb I need to use to express what I'm trying to say... Usually the last thing I have troble with is conjugation xD.

You're lucky :P. Conjugation is the most difficult for me, even though I understand it completely and it's easy. That wasn't supposed to be an oxymoron - I meant it is really easy, but it's something I have to work on to get used to...That better? I'm sure you know what I'm saying. I sometimes pause on verbs too, like "exit" (deru) and "enter"(hairu), even thoughthey sound nothing alike lol.

I think Japanese conjugation is coming so easily to me because prior to starting Japanese I was learning French and Spanish, In French and Spanish you have all kinds of conjugations at the time I started Japanese I was in French 3 and Spanish 3, now I'm in Spanish 3 and 4 and we're still yet covering conjugations of sorts. I originally spent about an hour typing this rant that no one would read so I'll summarize it with "In Spanish and French you have about 20 different tenses with 6 different conjugations of each and depending on the tense a varying amount of irregular verbs" So in the end 20 x 6 = way to many verb conjugations for me to care + sometimes 50 irregular verbs in a single tense Suffice to say I can't imagine English being any better from a non-native point of view. This is why I like Japanese, you have consistency that's easy to learn. You get 2 irregular verbs and the bare minimum number of tenses with no special conjugations for subject in order to convey your message. So really, I like Japanese because its efficient, subsequently it makes sense as the entire culture seems to adore efficiency as well.

I mean "I'm still in French 4 and Spanish 4..."

I dropped learning Spanish for two reasons : Too many conjugations (as you just said) Too popular of a language and even if I did learn it, it'd do me no good with jobs. Think of the places that ask if a person knows more than one language...I'm sure they'd accept me much faster if I said "English and Japanese" instead of "English and Spanish"...Just my thought on it. But as you said, it is definitely easier than the other languages. I was in Spanish 3, but that's when I dropped it.