Lesson 3.1, Fuji-san ni nobori masen ka?

In this lesson, Kenny suggests: "Fuji-san ni nobori masen ka?" That sentence is translated as, "Won't you climb up Mt. Fuji?" 1. Given the context, would an equally good translation be, "Won't we climb up Mt. Fuji?" 2. I realize that the translation is literal, and I've been trying to come up with a more idiomatic expression in English. Would the Japanese sentence be equivalent to "Why don't we climb Mt. Fuji?" Or maybe, "Wouldn't you like to climb Mt. Fuji?"

Hi there, 1. Japanese verb conjugation is the same for all subjects (I, you, she/he/it, you plu., we, they), so yes, "Won't we climb up Mt. Fuji?" is also another possible interpretation of that phrase. (as would "Won't I climb up Mt. Fuji?" etc.) 2. "Why don't we climb Mt. Fuji?" could be a possible equivalent, but "Wouldn't you like to climb Mt. Fuji?" might be stretching it since it brings in a whole aspect of wanting or desire. That might translate more as "Fuji-san ni noboritakunai~n desu ka?" Hope this helps. Cheers, Pascal.

Just one thing to correct from what Pascal-san said. The last representative sentence is: Fuji-san ni NOBORITAKUNAI-n desu ka? ....noritakunai means "to not want to ride".

Thanks コッド. I guess that's what I get for posting at 11pm. =)

Thanks for the responses, even if they raise more questions! I am trying to understand why this sentence is phrased the way it is. It seems like an odd way to ask someone to share an activity with you. Why is it in the negative? Why is it translated as "Won't YOU climb Mt. Fuji?" Sayaka obviously takes it as a suggestion that both of them climb Mt. Fuji. Why doesn't it use the word noboritakunai like Pascal-san did in his sentence? Or maybe "issho-ni" -- won't you climb Mt. Fuji with me? And now I am also trying to understand that difficult word, NOBORITAKUNAI-n. So, noboritai means "want to go up"? And to make it negative, you use -kunai? I thought that was just for adjectives, but I guess not! And finally, what is that "-n" at the end of the word? Sorry about all the questions. Arigato gozaimasu!

Hm, I'll try and answer your questions. You're right; it is a peculiar way to ask someone to share an activity. More suitable could be "Fuji san ni noborimashou ka?" With noboru in the polite volitional form to mean literally "Shall (we) climb Mt. Fuji?". You will find, however, that the negative form of verbs is used just as often when asking questions! For instance "Taberu?" and "Tabenai?" mean "Will (you) eat?" and "Won't (you) eat?" respectively, and they both serve to find find out whether or not you are going to eat. About it being translated as "Won't YOU climb Mt. Fuji?", I could also translate it as "Won't HE climb Mt. Fuji?" or even "Won't THEY climb Mt. Fuji?". The point here is that subjects are not included when they are evident to the speakers. It's sort of how in Spanish you don't say "Yo tengo que buscarlo" But rather "Tengo que...", omitting the "Yo" (1st person subject pronoun), except in Japanese the verbs are only conjugated based on tense and mood. (by mood I mean volitional, imperative etc). So when I write, for example, "Takushii de ikimasu"/ "(insert subject) goes by taxi", a person reading it would have no idea who the sentence is referring to. So then I might include "Watashi ga takushii de ikimasu" to make it clear that *I* go by taxi. In summary, since Japanese verbs are conjugated based on tense and mood and not subject, the subject of a sentence has to be inferred from context or otherwise explicitly stated. Really then, the translation should be "Won't (you) climb Mt. Fuji?" Since the "you" isn't explicitly stated in Japanese. ("Issho ni" is valid here; it would just mean "together" so "Issho ni fuji san ni noborimasen ka?" would mean "Won't WE climb Mt. Fuji together?" The WE is more explicit here since Issho (together) implies the first person plural "WE" subject.) And about Noboritakunai: Yes, you are right, "Noboritai" means "want to go up". (noboru is a godan verb with a ru ending, so the "tai" form is formed by dropping the "ru" and adding "ri" to get a stem form and then adding "tai") And guess what? That "-tai" form verb is actually now considered an adjective! So in the same way that "oishikunai" means "not tasty", "noboritakunai" means "don't want to climb". I could even make it past tense negative conditional: Noboritakunakattara (If (I) did not want to climb!) And the last point about the ~n desu, this is short for "no desu", and often indicates explanation or reason. For instance "Why do you want to do that?" could be "Naze sore o shitai no desu ka?". However, in thise case where a explanation is not being asked for, the "~n desu" is simply a softener to soften the tone in which the question is asked. Eg. "Nomitai desu!" and "Nomitai~n desu ga" both mean "I want to drink", but the first is more of an exclamation/protest while the second is more of a request. The second one is more pleasing to hear =). (the ga there is another sentence softener with the meaning of "but" and implying "I want to drink, but I don't want to be too much of a bother". I hope this answers your questions :)

Thank you, Pascal-san. I am slowly coming to accept "Fuji-san ni nobori masen ka?" as a normal way to issue an invitation. After all, in English we also often phrase invitations or suggestions in the negative: "Won't you try some of this goat cheese?" or "Why don't we go to the movies tonight?" I still think it should have been translated, "Won't WE climb Mt. Fuji?" though. Now about the ~n desu. I understand how "no desu ga" is a softener for a request, and I understand that "~n desu" means "no desu." But I don't understand how it is "short" for "no desu." It doesn't seem any shorter. And I'm unclear on whether the pronunciation of a phrase actually changes, or whether this is just a written abbreviation. Once more, arigato. Your comments are very helpful.

As I said above it could easily be translated as "Won't WE climb Mt. Fuji?"; the context suggests it after all. As for the "~n desu" bit, yes, I was just thinking of it as shorter when written. I guess also when speaking it since the "n" joins onto the end of the adjective/verb etc. it might be very slightly shorter. Also, I forgot to mention that "~n desu" is more colloquial, while "no desu" is polite. You can also refer to Lesson 4.7 "Asking for Further Information"; it deals briefly with the "~n desu" and "no desu" constructions. And no problem. It's fun to help out. =)