Lesson 5.5: "¿estás en el camino?" and "estoy en camino"

In lesson 5.5, Amy asks Mauricio if he's on the way: “¿estás en el camino?”. This makes sense; it's the same as in English: “Are you on the road?”. But then later in the lesson, when Mauricio says he's on the way he says it like this: “estoy en camino”, instead of “estoy en el camino.”. This doesn't make sense to me. It's like: “I am on road”. Is this a mistake or an idiomatic way people talk? If it's an idiomatic construction Google doesn't get it yet either.

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Well, I get it. And I didn't mean to imply I thought Google was infallible. I'll use Spanishdict from now on - I didn't realize it had this translation feature.

But, it's not a stupid question. And I don't think Spanish is just another way to speak English. The problem is that I'm trying to learn Spanish from this course and that particular thing was simply not explained. I have found other mistakes in these lessons, actually several, and I'm only in the middle of Level 1. 

So I don't need a lecture - I only need clarification. Saying “It is what it is” is not helpful. Please don't reply to my future posts (and I'm sure there will be some) if you only feel the need to lecture.

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Rick, I remember that lesson and I also find the articles confusing. Seems like most of the time they are required but then sometimes they are not (when I think they should be). As so often seems to happen in Spanish this may be one of those flexible “rules” or  perhaps the rule is complex. I can't help with your question as I eneded up just memorizing it, but an example of complex rules:

You put an article in front of a date if you have a definite plan but if you are referring to the date in general (and have no definite plan that you are referring to on that date), then you don't use the article.

I enjoy Rocket Spanish but to really get good at Spanish I am learning you have to hear real conversations, which is challenging because I can't keep up. I also remember the first rule is to communicate and getting the grammar exactly right is a nice to do.

Thanks for this helpful post. The date with/without an article was another thing that I was confused about. It makes more sense now.

I watched “Narcos” again on Netflix paying attention to the Spanish, and I did notice that I could resolve more words now. An interesting thing in that program, which takes place in Colombia, is their use of “vos”. It seemed to me that it was used between the family members instead of tú.

¡Hola a todos!

Getting a good feel for how articles work in Spanish can be tricky - not only because they can work differently from articles in English, but also because there can be instances where the articles are simply optional, and/or where they're used differently in different regions!  

For the instances that have been mentioned in this thread so far:

1. Estar en el camino vs. Estar en camino

Both estar en el camino and estar en camino can be used to say “to be on the way”; neither one is wrong - including that el or not is just up to you! 

2. Articles and Dates

Using the article with the date can also sometimes be a bit flexible, and Scott_C's strategy of considering whether or not there is a plan involved is a good starting point! 

In general, when we talk about dates, we're usually talking about a date on which something occurs, and the article is always mandatory when a date is being used in this way (e.g. Nació el nueve de diciembre “(He) was born on December 9th”). As a result, it's generally safest to always include the article when you're talking about dates and to think of the Spanish date format in general as being el + [date] + de + [month] + de [year].  

To some degree, though, article usage can be regional: in some parts of Latin America, people prefer to leave the article out when talking about things like today's or tomorrow's date (e.g. saying Hoy es dos de julio instead of Hoy es el dos de julio for “Today is July 2nd”). So it does also pay to keep an ear out when you're talking to people in a given area to see what they do! 

3. Conclusion

Overall, little things like articles are ones that you're going to get a feel for as you get more and more Spanish exposure - both through the course and through external sources, such as TV, music, or newspaper articles. So this is something that you don't have to worry too much about - it'll come on its own with time as your brain gets more wired for Spanish!

In the meantime, don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions like these - often, there's an answer! :) And if you find anything that you think might be a mistake in a lesson, please don't hesitate to let us know about those either - either through the feedback feature in each lesson, through the feedback part of the forum, or by contacting customer support directly via email (at support@rocketlanguages.com). We always want to keep improving our courses - and it may be that there's an explanation behind things that appear to be mistakes at first glance too! 

Saludos,

Liss

As always super helpful Liss! I can attest to the feedback button working. I have reported a few minor things (like the pronoun being in parantheses or not) and they have promptly fixed those things I have pointed out.

Rick - it is so exciting when you start to be able to pick out words and then phrases in Spanish. I like Narcos as well and love how hard Pablo rolls his Rs.  There are simplier Spanish programs out there if you want something a bit slower and simplier, geared towards people who are not fluent.

I like Extra! and it can be found on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfb9-ZTCA-E&t=143s . 

If you like podcasts, I think Help Me Learn Spanish Joel! is nice as he speaks very slow and typically in present tense. He interviews native speakers and they answer faster. It is nice to have slow and faster in the same lesson.

There are many more good suggestions in other posts, but this one is probably the best bang for your read. https://app.rocketlanguages.com/members/forum/spanish/spanish-feedback-and-comments/what-is-your-favourite-thing-to-watch-and-listen-to-in-spanish

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Scott,

I got a case

of red ass.

I posted a link

to the movie

“El Pocho,”

a movie written,

directed and starred

in by a late, very 

famous mexican

cinematic and general

entertainment legend

from the golden age

of mexican cinema.

I believe the film was

released in 1972

I additionally posted

quite a bit of factual

commentary and

some factual history

It must of spun

one or some

of the 

perpetually offended,

narrative driven,

ethnic obsessed types

because it was 

shortly removed.

So I removed most

of the commentary,

the stuff I believe

would flame the

extremely loud

contingent

of first

world problem,

easily aggrieved

gaggle of

malcontents

and reposted it.

I don't expect it

to be up for long.

I've been around

the things I

described in

the original

posting too

much to believe

it's otherwise,

that is real stuff

that does go on.

As well, I've had

mexicans tell

me they were

freaked out

by how much I

know about them

that most white

americans don't.

In the meantime

I've been scrubbing

the site of all my

posts that I can.

This thread is one

of the jacked up ones

where there is only

about an 8th of the

blue edit button and 

the red delete button

is inaccessable,

so all I can do is delete

the characters and

replace with at least

ten characters.

There's a thread or

two I can't edit at

all.

The threads I 

have originated,

I can delete the

thread if no one

else comments,

otherwise I can

only delete my

commentary and

replace with ten

characters.

Scott, have a 

good day

Ha ha, I did wonder why you reposted that one the other day. Drives me nuts when moderators think it is OK to just remove posts. If they ever atteneded a Moderating 101 lesson it is one of the first things they teach. Don't delete posts (unless they use the N word or some similiarly bad level of post) and instead use the posts you are not happy are there as a jumping off point to open disucssions. If somebody posts it, that means a number of people are thinking it, so deleting posts is the equivalent of sticking your head in the sand.

I enjoy your posts, keep them coming!

Thank you for

the kind words,

Scott.

I got too close

to an ethnic

activist's censor

reflex. Narrative

rather than fact

Is what's important

to those types.

Could have been

a moderator, or

an activist crybaby

who's bought into

American

university hatched 

mythology that 

Mexicans don't

go for, like the

“I'm Aztec" 

nonsense, someone 

burned a 

blazing path

straight to the 

RS complaint 

department.

It came down quick.

I studied the chicano

movement from its

originating event,

the depression era 

deportations of the

1930s where people

who, or their parents, 

were born in

mexico but had

grown up

in the US and

abruptly found 

themselves in Mexico,

where they didn't fit

in and were 

discriminated against.

That happened.

And of course they

would find fault with

the dominant culture

north of the border

for their predicament.

I studied border history

from the time Cabeza

de Vaca passed through

along with 

mexican, spanish and 

pre-columbian native 

history of mesoamerica

so I could understand

for myself what illegal

immigration and the

loud, accusatory, 

bitter argument

concerning it

was really about.

I came to the conclusion

that both far sides of the

issue are so full of shit

they make all the rest

us stink.

El Pocho is not by any

means a documentary,

but it is partially

a commentary on the

prejudices that people

of the mixed cultures

have experienced from

both sides of the

border.

This not to say every 

anglo and every mexican

has evil intent

towards those of the

mixed culture, but,

mild or savage,

the prejudice

has historicly

been there to varying

degrees.

I took the exs' grandaughter 

and great grandaughter

to a mexican restaurant in

a neighboring, 

predominatingly white 

town. This was after all 

the divisive blather being 

forced on city halls and 

county govrnments

that (white) "racism

is a public health crisis" 

maybe three years ago.

While at the table

I explained to the 

younger one

that when GGma 

was her age

GGma, an American 

citizen born not

too far from there, 

couldn't 

have even come 

into that town, 

she would have 

been run out

due to her 

pigmentation.

I further related that

In that time it would 

have been impossible 

for the descendants 

of mexicans, people 

like she and her mother,

to be seated in the 

restaurant, which is 

owned by 

brown skinned people,

and be served by brown 

skinned waitresses food 

prepared by mexican 

cooks, in GGma's time 

and of that place. 

Nothing about or

around our

meal could have

happened.

But, she and her 

mom can come and 

go as they please,

and very few would 

take notice of their 

skin tone in the present 

town.

And, probably no one 

would care about the 

ancestry of the owners, 

servers or cooks.

GGma experienced white

racism in her time, it's

unlikely the GGdaughter

ever will in hers. But she 

might experience 

prejudice from south

of the border people.

One mexican explained

it to me something like 

this: "How can you forget 

your language and your 

culture?" is what he 

thought. It's like brown 

Americans are traitors 

to themselves, their

ancestors and to mexico.

Then he eventually 

came to realize that 

the brown Americans 

he was so worked

up about didn't 

have it to begin with.

This is an important

conversation to have.

The point of that 

conversation is to 

not believe everything

pushed at her about 

race. There are people 

who seek to divide 

rather than unite

us.

That girl, too rapidly 

becoming a young

woman, has a special

place in my heart.

I might do a follow 

up post to El Pocho

concerning the 

symbolism of the 

party and the dream.

That is if snowflake 

reality deniers don't 

get it taken down 

again.

Hi Al22, 

Thanks for your posts. I just wanted to assure you that we haven't been removing any of your posts. I'm guessing that the issue was the video;  we automatically filter out all videos from posts, alongside other stuff like email addresses, for security reasons. You will see that your other post here is still up:

https://app.rocketlanguages.com/members/forum/spanish/spanish-culture-and-travel/el-pocho

I hope that helps!

Margaret, thank you 

for addressing the 

issue.

I will assure you the

thread “El Pocho” 

disappeared and I 

didn't remove it.

After it was removed

I reposted it. So far

it's still up

If you read a certain

above post, it was

noticed by another

RS subscriber the 

thread disappeared

then was reposted.

Concerning the links

It has been my belief

that one would have

to copy and paste

the link to view the

video, not a direct

link, and I know for

a fact that

subscribers of RS

have viewed videos 

I have posted 

elsewhere on the

RS platform.

I don't appreciate my

thread concerning

El Pocho being ripped

down almost immediately,

but I'm willing to move

on from it, 

I don't know how a video link would be removed as links don't work on this forum and there have been many other links to videos on this forum that were posted (but again, not as a link but as a string of characters you have to cut and paste) and you can still find them.

¡Hola a todos!

Firstly, our apologies if any posts were removed. This is not a manual process, as the only reason that one of our team members would remove a user post is, as Scott_C suggested because it contained explicit content. 

If one of your posts is removed again by the digital filter, please let us know, and we would be happy to ask our IT team to look into why this occurred and ensure that it doesn't happen again. 

Please be assured that the "El Pocho" thread is still up and will not be removed; you can find it via the following link:

https://app.rocketlanguages.com/members/forum/spanish/spanish-culture-and-travel/el-pocho

Thank you for your understanding,

Indy 

Indy, thank you for

your interest.

There was not

explicit content.

My belief as to

why my thread,

El Pocho,

was removed

had to do with

factual commentary

which an American

ethnic activist might

find objectional

because it could

go contrary to 

etnic activist narrative.

Narratives can be

quite creative as a

means to an end

result.

I'll elaborate in the next

post, I have have to 

leave in a few minutes

for something I have

to do.

Indy,

Whether the reason 

for my thread of 

"El Pocho" being taken 

down was by a 

moderator or machine 

algorithms this is why I

 believe the post was 

removed.

As I stated I'm willing 

to move on without a 

grudge.

I don't like using the 

word "I" like "I" will be 

forced to repeatedly 

do in this commentary.

I stepped on some 

sacred cows originated 

by the Chicano movement 

of the 60s and 70s and 

the network it has evolved 

into today. Chicano activist 

rhetoric and associated

mythology is generally 

rejected by Mexican 

nationals largely because 

it is derived in the US 

by people not widely 

accepted by the general 

Mexican public as being 

Mexican, a sort of catch 

22 that has to be creatively 

explained away by 

American ethnic activists.

For example, the friction 

that can occur between 

Mexicans and American 

descendents of Mexicans 

has been redirected not 

as a cultural division 

between the two groups 

but evil, exploitive, racist 

anglos who purposely 

drive a wedge between 

them.

I have talked with a lot 

of people about these 

issues, to boil it down a 

quotation each from 

an educated Mexican 

from Michoacan talking 

about her American 

relatives visiting her family 

when she lived in Mexico, 

"They think they're better 

than us," and a brown 

American  woman " they're 

jealous of us." A former 

coworker who had just 

returned from visiting 

Mexico told me "we 

(brown Americans) are 

worse (to Mexicans) than 

you are."  

I could go on 

forever with examples, 

but to be fair there are 

some who report to me 

few to no problems while

in Mexico, but 

I'm assuming it's while 

visiting with close family 

or they instinctively know 

how to flow around Mexicans. 

One last example: a brown 

American told me he was 

in a bar in Mexico when he 

had a knife put to his back 

and asked "Chicano o 

Mexicano?" He didn't offer 

more details and I didn't 

think to ask.

Meanwhile I have several 

books written by different 

university ethnic studies 

professors and they all 

have a common drum 

beat theme of oppressive, 

purposely evil anglos, past 

and present, veritably 

adorned with accessory 

blood dripping fangs 

actively looking for some 

hapless brown person to 

screw over, "the white man 

is out to get YOU."

Some of said books are

more rabid than others,

but all are scurrilous 

screeds which rewrite

history to an end 

and spin relatively 

recent events.

When you read about

Mexicans herding cattle

in Oregon or societal

conditions in California

prior to 1848 as described 

by these type of activist

authors, be aware this

is fiction derived from

whole cloth.

During the illegal 

immigration conflict

In America

between 2000 and 

2010, a young woman 

who was a freshman 

in university was 

interviewed by a local 

newspaper. She related 

that she had been happily 

going on in life until she 

hit the ethnic studies class 

then , "Gosh, I suddenly 

realized I've been exploited 

my whole life."

I asked an elderly journalist

why a local ethnic studies

professor, also elderly,

would push this racial crap.

He laughed and replied

"it's how he makes his

living."

Setting Americans against

one another rather than

uniting us.

Next post commentary 

specifically on my belief 

of why my post was removed, 

whether by a person or 

machine algorithm.

Allan

Allan 

Part of why your posts always look long is they are always narrow (at least on my screen). Any idea why that is happening? Maybe it is your phone screen width, but most forums allow for phone use without it impacting the post.

Scott,

The first page of this thread is jacked up with the right margin, I have to copy and paste your and other's commentary to read them. The text extends way past the right margin and I usually can't read it under those conditions.

So, I just make it work on my end by carriage return after every three or four words.

So far this page is normal.

It has nothing to do with my devices.

RS is aware of the issue.

Allan

Indy,

The specifics of why I believe the original posted thread "El Pocho" was removed from the forum.

Some of the material went against the above narrative referred to above.

Please note I don't confuse race with nationality.

I quoted Lucha Villa's character saying to "Joe" " los pochos no quieren ser mexicanos." That goes directly against American "university Mexican" dogma, the Americans who wave the Mexican flag in places like city council meetings while alternating between yelling  "I'm indigenous," "I'm Aztec" and so on, which is usually irrelevant to the business being discussed. These are people who Mexican nationals don't regard as being Mexican and who don't buy into the US derived dogma. However, the dogma has some influence in the US.

The influence leads to media censorship, conversations about the dogma turn into one way, spit flying shout downs where the activist calls the other names and accuses the other of bigotry, because the accusation works to an end.

***

I referred to the 500 year history of the Mexican mestizo and compared it to people of the mixed cultures in the US as a sort of antecedent.

Mexican historian Enrique Krauze said Mexico was formed the moment Cortes and Moctezuma looked each other in the face. He also described the first mestizo born in Mexico, Martín Cortes, as the first Mexican. Martín was the son of Hernan Cortes and Malintzin, La Malinche.

Both Martín and Mexico were derived from European Spain and mesoamerican Indian, but was and is neither.

One has to read the chapter titled "The sons of La Malinche" of "The labyrinth of solitude" by Octavio Paz to get the context of the following imperfect paraphrase:  "Some who are nearly all white claim to be Indian, some who are nearly all Indian claim to be Spanish. The Indians themselves don't care about it. However, The Mexican and his history begins with himself, he doesn't want to be descended from either one."

The mestizo was rejected and discriminated against by both Spanish and Indian, he was the unwelcome bastard child until he became the racial majority during  the late 19th century.

The mixed culture in the US is derived from Mexican and American cultures but  belongs to neither one.

I have spent a lot of effort talking to all sorts of people about this. Some feel like they don't belong anywhere, others are supremely comfortable with who they are.

I will continue with the next and last post concerning this subject Jose Vasconcelos and his "cosmic race" book. I think my very short commentary on that in the original "El Pocho" post would have been the biggie with the potential to set some hair on fire.

Allan
 

Thanks Allan - I do see normal posts now.

Indy,

In my commentary in the original  "El Pocho" thread I brought up Jose Vasconcelos because he was in charge of the educational system in Mexico after the 1910 revolution. I speculate that his great antipathy toward the US and Americans might have contributed to Mexican  cultural feelings towards the US and Americans, although it has been present  since the Mexican American war.

In the late 19th century Mexican President Porfirio Diaz said “Poor Mexico, so far from heaven and so close to the United States.”

Vasconcelos wrote a short book titled "The Cosmic Race," I haven't read it in more than 20 years.

However my recollection is that it has to do with the eventual supremacy of the mixture of races of Latin America.

I believe that if the premise of the book was turned upside down and written and published in english during the 21st century within the US by a man named, say, Karl Schmidt instead of 1925 in Mexico by a spanish speaking man named Jose Vasconcelos, there would have been a great furor, the fact that Amazon wouldn't be carrying the book would be the very least of the uproar.

However, the Chicano Movement of the 60s and 70s took Vasconcelos' book to be gospel. I believe some of the 1969 Chicano movement's Plan de Aztlan was inspired by Vasconcelos' work.

The Plan of Aztlan is a declaration of ethnic nationalism and suggested racial war. In parts it talks about / implies driving out white people (the "exploiter", the "foreigner gabacho") and (translated) “for the race everything, outside of the race nothing.” And, it is crammed full of woeful oppression and victimization.

Note the "Plan" is written in english with a spanish word here, three or eight sparse words of spanish there, not in spanish and certainly not far off, central Mexican indigenous nahuatl, it is a pocho document concerning a pocho cause that most Mexicans wouldn't care the slightest about.

Because it's pocho. 

Like the spanglish speaking or english only pocho who says he's Aztec and writes words like Xicano, Latinx, Chicana/o…

In the original El Pocho thread I described Vasconcelos' book as "ultimately a racist screed." It was meant as a dispassionate statement of belief rather than an intentional provocation, and I have neither apology nor recantation of my belief.

There's an ironic Mexican joke that the US took the best part of Mexico in 1848, the part that was paved and had all the modern conveniences.

As for oppressors and victims, I know a couple from southern Mexico with elementary school educations who own a successful restaurant and will be opening up a second in about two weeks from this writing. Maybe they need to be oppressed and victimized a little more so they can open a third.

Allan