SER versus ESTAR

I found another reference for Ser vs. Estar: http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~annw/ser-estar.html To quote that page: "En (and in a few cases, a,) is most often used to describe a location or condition, and the linker is usually estar. The exception comes when the subject is an event rather than a person or object. # Madrid está en España. Josefina está en la cocina. Mi sobrino está en segundo grado de primaria. (El lobo está a la puerta) But: La clase es en Parlin. La fiesta es a las nueve. (These are events, not physical objects. In this case, ser can be translated as "to happen.") Again, it doesn't matter if the location is changeable. Even though cities, buildings, etc. don't move, you still use estar to describe their location. They are located there; they don't happen there." The rule I learned is that : SER is used when talking about time (¿qué hora es?), destinguishing characteristics (él es alto), and the location of events (parties, concerts, classes, etc., as opposed to the location of people or things -- ¿dónde es la fiesta?), whereas ESTAR is used for the location of concrete objects (Paula está en la clase) and for changing states , charactersistics, and conditions (whether the change is brief or long-lasting) -- estoy aburrido; Lincoln está muerto. Lincoln is dead means his state has changed but being dead does not define who he is as a person. The word "estado" (state) comes from "estar". The "estaciones" of the year (seasons) also come from the verb "estar" and indicate the changing states that the climate goes through. ESTAR is related to the idea of "standing" as in "I stand corrected" or "I stand here in the state of being bored" (estoy aburrido) whereas ES has to do with the idea of being who or what you essentially are (I am a boring person = soy aburrido). Another way to say this is that ESTAR (está) has to do with the STATE something (or someone) finds itself in, whereas SER (es) has to do with defining or essential TRAITS. For example, the sun is (es) hot (heat is an essential trait of the sun but the climate may be (está) either hot or cold, a changing state. Tony

[quo]*Quote:* But: La clase es en Parlin. La fiesta es a las nueve. (These are events, not physical objects. In this case, ser can be translated as "to happen.") [/quo] In the random common spanish phrases (on this website) is the question: "¿Dónde está la fiesta?" (Where is the party?) According to you, a party is an event, and therefore should be referred to using _ser_, not _estar_. Yet _estar_ is used in the example mentioned above. Which is it??

[quo]*Quote from * Martin In the random common spanish phrases (on this website) is the question: "¿Dónde está la fiesta?" (Where is the party?) According to you, a party is an event, and therefore should be referred to using _ser_, not _estar_. Yet _estar_ is used in the example mentioned above. [/quo] As far as I can tell, "¿Dónde está la fiesta?" is incorrect. In *_A New Reference Grammar of Modern Spanish_* by John Butt and Carmen Benjamin, a grammar book that many people have told me is very reliable, the following statement appears in the chapter devoted to SER and ESTAR: "Learners constantly forget that *ser must be used for the location of events* as opposed to people or things: ¿dónde es la fiesta? 'where's the party?', but ¿dónde está el libro? 'where's the book?'"

You'll notice in Lesson 2.3 of the Rocket Spanish Interactive Audio Course, I ask Mauricio the question, *¿Dónde es el concierto?* _Where is the concert?_ The concert, being an event, requires* estar*.

[quo]*Quote:* You'll notice in Lesson 2.3 of the Rocket Spanish Interactive Audio Course, I ask Mauricio the question, *¿Dónde es el concierto?* Where is the concert? [/quo] [quo]*Quote:* The concert, being an event, requires estar.[/quo] Sorry, but I'm still confused (in fact I'm even more confused now). You say it should be "¿Dónde es?", but then you say that the concert, being an event, requires estar - surely this would make the question ¿Dónde _está_ el concierto? Again, in the random common spanish phrases section, one of the questions is : "¿Dónde _está_ la fiesta?" Is this correct or incorrect? I have major problems with ser and estar (it seems to me that some of the distinctions made between "states" and "essential characteristics" are really quite arbitrary, or in some cases a matter of philosophical orientation). so it would really bug me not to know whether ser or estar is grammatically correct in the example above. If "¿Dónde es la fiesta?" is correct, then the version on the random phrases page is wrong, and needs to be changed.

The first part of Amy's answer is correct. In the second part she just mixed up ser and estar, I suppose, for that statement is not correct. So to sum it up: The sentence "¿Dónde está la fiesta?" is plain wrong.

Both Ser and Estar are used to describe location however the location of where something will take place such as a concert or fiesta, Ser must be used. To describe the location of something more tangible such as the location of a bank or the museum, estar must be used. I know it is not really logical but that is the way it is. It simply must be learned rather than trying to identify a pattern that does not exist.

sjlkh, ¡Bien dicho! Saludos, Rich