Vosotros

Without using "Vosotros", how do you address a group of children on giving instructions like "You wash your hands now" or "You play or dance later". Laváis sus manos a hora mismo o jugáis o bailáis mas tarde.

For those of us who are learning Latin American Spanish, don't we just use the third person plural form instead? Lavan sus manos ahora...(maybe this should be reflexive?) Juegan más tarde. Bailan más tarde.

And the expression most used of all: "¡Cállense, ninos!"

If ustedes + verb is used, it is not appropriate. If Ellos + verb is used, it also is not quite correct. Maybe just include yourself and say nosotros + the conjugated verb. Steven, I don't understand what you are saying.

"¡Cállense, niños!" Callar - is the verb to "shut up" Callarse - would mean to keep quiet Cállense - is the imperative form of the verb to more than one person to keep quiet (so, as Dan mentioned, third person plural). A group of children (niños) is the context you were looking for. If you haven't yet seen this expression in RS, you will!

I am pretty certain they do not use the 'vosotros' form in Latin America so the only other choice when addressing a group of children is ustedes. Most likely you will use the imperative as we usually give orders to children.

Where I was at in Bolivia, ustedes would be the proper form. They didn't ever seem to use vosotros.

But ustedes is suppose to be the formal form of you plural. Maybe it is not so bad of an idea to be respectful to children, however young they are.

I honestly have never felt quite comfortable using "tu" to much younger people. I always feel like I'm talking down to them. If I "have to" use that form in certain contexts, I want them to "tu" me back.

Aurora you are correct that ustedes is formal and vosotros is informal. However, many areas, drop the vosotros and use the ustedes form as both the formal and informal. A good thing to know when preparing for travel to a Spanish speaking country is whether or not vosotros is used. It will make communication much easier.

I have formed the impression that certain things that might be considered somewhat rude in the United States are not seen that way when speaking in Spanish. For example, when I began learning, one of the first things that I summoned the courage to say in Spanish was to order for myself and my girlfriend in our favorite Cuban restaurant, and then only because the proprietor knows us pretty well. One time I asked her to clarify that I was ordering properly. Since her English is heavily accented, she wrote down what she thought I was asking for: "Quiero dos café con leche." It was not quite my question, but I was surprised that she used quiero and not Me gustaria. To her at least, saying that "I want" something was not rude. I think that most Americans would say they would like something rather than they want something when speaking to someone who is taking care of them. On the other side of that coin, it seems to me that some things like using the tú form with people younger than you is expected and not considered rude in Spanish speaking countries, whereas, like Steven, many Americans might choose a more formal way of addressing younger people. Maybe this is what Jimmy Buffett meant when he wrote, "Changes in Latitudes, Changes in Attitudes."

I am most certainly carrying around american "baggage" and apologies in advance that my context is more French/Paris. I think the principles though are pretty similar with the usage of "tu" and "usted" and I would be keenly interested in hearing from your latino friends as this lies at the very heart of culture/relationships. Here are a couple of real life examples: 1.) A radio announcer on the air fields a call from a young caller. He asks her age after which he starts to use "tu" with her (almost apologetically), but immediately chimes in with "but you use 'tu' with me too, ok?" * 2.) A little girl, at the nearby prodding of her parents, comes up to me and apologies for something she did. To have fun with her (and treating her "like a big girl"), I used "usted" - and her eyes just lit up like I had attributed to her significant value - with big smiles all around on the parent's faces.* :-) * And hence why I say in this context that he "had to" use tu but "wanted to" treat her on the same level. * What comes to mind as I was writing this is this guy at Disney World who would come up to little girls dressed up as princesses and he would ask them, "Are you a real princess?", after which he would ask them for their autograph. Afterwards those little girls would talk about that experience incessantly and it would be their most memorable experience at the park!

We do something similar when we choose whether to address someone by their first name or with Mr./Mrs. Last Name. For instance, adults almost always address kids by their first name while kids address adults using Mr., Mrs., Aunt, Uncle, etc..

Hola amigos! Let me see if I can put it all together: *In general latinamerican countries use "ustedes" and Spain uses "vosotros". I've heard that some souther regions of Spain use "ustedes" but in general , they use "vosotros". *Remember that when you use vosotros, some verbs that follow it, change. The most common case I can think of is "ser"...it changes from "ustedes son" to "vosotros sois", with the verb "ir" (to go) from "usteden van" vs."vosotros vais", with the verb "querer" from "ustedes quieren" vs. "vosotros queréis",and so on. (more info here http://www.spanishdict.com/topics/show/13) *Back to latinamerica, and to singular, we have the informal "tu" and the formal "usted"....AND! we also have "vos" which is mainly use in Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and some central american countries such as Guatemala (by the way, verbs also change a bit followed by "vos". Again with "ser" it changes from "Tu eres" to "Vos sos" In México is quite simple...stick with 'usted"for older people, respected person (such as and authority, teacher or similar) and people you just met (unless they are kids or very young). I have use usted with kids, but it is not very common (the examples provided by Steven about the princess its a good example) .But for example all the people I have met from Colombia tend to use "usted" all the time, even when talking to kids. About the "quiero" vs. "me gustaría" I also use 'quiero" most of the time, and it is not rude, but, it does sound better with 'me gustaría". Saludos!

I talked about tú vs. usted with my tutor yesterday. She said that in her country (Peru), they use the words about how Cristian described in Mexico: Usted for older people or those to whom one should show respect, tú for younger people. She also said that at least in her family, she would use the tú form when addressing her parents. She also thinks that in Colombia people are more likely to use usted when addressing anyone they do not know well, even younger people. Like many other things, when in doubt, err on the side of courtesy.

Thanks, Dan. Good thing to keep in mind.

Si,de acuerdo,mi padre me da mi nombre.El quiero leer Literature.Mi realmente de nombre es Marisol(stands for "sun of the sea").Tienes trabaja?Que?Es usted casado o todavia soltero y incluso tus hermanos?Encantado!y Agradable hablar usted!Gracias!Buena suerte y buenas noches!Nos vemos aqui!

Another story from my friend in Bolivia. He saw young boy and his dog in the plaza at his village and asked what his name was. ¿Cuál es su nombre? The boy gave him the dogs name. My friend was puzzled by the strange name and asked the boy what his last name was. The boy shrugged, said I'm not sure, and gave the last name of the dog's owner. It was about a month later when finally realized that he had learned the dog's name and not the boy's name.

Hola, If you ask "¿Cuál es su nombre?" and point at the dog, you are asking about the dog's name. If you directly ask to the person "¿Cuál es su nombre?" then, you are asking the person his name, in a formal form. So , "su" it's a little bit tricky in this situation. Probably , since it was a kid, you could have ask him, "¿Cuál es TU nombre?", In this case, it can only be about the boy's name and not the dog...unless you talk to dogs, which , well, most owners do seem to 'talk' to them as if they were kids or persons. So , the conversation could go like this: "Hola,¿Cuál es tu nombre?" "Cristian" "Y su nombre? (pointing to the dog, or directing the look towards the dog) "Su nombre es Huesos" ***Remember the "su", in this case the phrase could also mean, in a formal way, "Your name is bones" but since the last question was about the dog, then in context you would understand he is using the 'su' toward the dog) "Hi, what is your name? "Cristian" "And"his" name (or it's name , since it is an animal) "His name is "Bones"(It's name is "bones") Saludos!

Cristian, gracias por la perspicacia. I completely agree with your assessment. The thing is that in this particular area of Bolivia, my friend's experience has been that they do not use the formal "usted" person. It's almost exclusively 2nd person singular for "you" and 3rd person plural for "you." In other words they not only have dropped the vosotros, but they have also dropped the usted. Although some people would understand the formal singular, my friend said most of the locals would be confused.